Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Mari Smith, a renowned expert in social media marketing and technology, and someone who embodies positivity!
I’ve been following Mari’s career for over a decade now. We never crossed paths until very recently, when we were both speaking at the same virtual event. I jumped at the chance to ask if I could interview her. And, being the gracious, generous and positive person she is… she said yes.
If you’re not already familiar with her career, Mari Smith is one of the foremost and original experts in Facebook marketing and is often referred to as the Queen of Facebook.
She’s also a keynote speaker, corporate social media strategist, and brand ambassador for numerous leading organizations. Her client list includes Adobe, AT&T, Bank of America, HubSpot, Nations Lending, Verizon and Tony Robbins. Plus, she has shared stages with the likes of Sir Richard Branson, Eckhart Tolle, and Arianna Huffington.
Quite the resume!
Let’s jump in…
Nick: Mari, thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with us. It’s a privilege to be able to chat with you!
I suspect we may share some of the same ideas when it comes to relationship marketing. As you can tell, I approach this from the perspective of a copywriter. More specifically, a conversational copywriter.
For me, this means discarding the old copywriting approach of selling AT an audience with blunt-force sales copy, and instead using everyday language in a way that respectfully engages WITH an audience.
Is this a reasonable fit with your own approach to building genuine relationships with an audience?
Mari: Oh my gosh, absolutely 100%! You’re speaking my language now, Nick! When social media first started its meteoric rise to prominence around 2007 onwards, there were so many brands and businesses that just didn’t ‘get’ it. They kept on with the one-way ‘push’ style of marketing with no conversations. It’s like they couldn’t be bothered, or just didn’t want to invest time and money into having skilled community moderators and trained public-facing customer support staff managing their social channels.
So, these companies using the old-school approach would crank out content and basically ignore the engagement. So sad. They missed out on a ton of actual business development. Fast forward some 15 years now, and there are still brands and businesses that use the one-way push marketing and ignore the engagement. Whether B2C or B2B, social media users are savvy and will just take their business to a company that values them.
Nick: I think you’re best known as a social media expert, with a particular focus on Facebook. But to me, you much more than a subject expert. I get the sense that you sincerely care about people, and are interested in how social media can help form genuine relationships. Does that sound about right?
Mari: Amen. Yes. Most all of my adult life, starting around age 14, I’ve had two parallel passions: my love of people and my love of technology.
I love studying what makes people tick, their psychology and our human relationship dynamics both personally and in business. One of my earliest coaching certifications about twenty years ago was as a relationship coach. And, I’ve probably taken every mainstream personality assessment there is out there. My favorites include the DISC model, Myers-Briggs, StrengthsFinder, and my latest passion over the past couple of years is The Human Design System. I’ve been immersed in Human Design professional training every week for the past two years to eventually become an Analyst!
And on the tech side, I just love computers and especially how we can use technology to create and sustain relationships and build communities all over the world. To me, digital/online is never a replacement for in person. Rather, it’s a beautiful augmentation. In my early days of social media, I would call it ‘virtual rapport’ when we would build deep connections with people in our community. Then when you finally see that person in aura at a conference or meetup, there is already a lovely bond and the conversation and connection just flows.
Another relevant aspect to mention is the influence of my childhood – being raised in a small Quaker community in rural BC, Canada. My parents were both devoted Quakers and I’ve always resonated with the simple values of equality and peace. To embody the Golden Rule. To be inclusive and kind to all peoples.
Nick: In your book, The New Relationship Marketing, you say, “Begin implementing more “soft skills” in your marketing, such as being empathetic, genuinely caring, giving without an agenda, and having an “inclusive attitude.””
Can we equate that to having a higher level of emotional intelligence? And can we go one step further, and talking about writing and copywriting for social media with a higher level of “conversational intelligence”?
Mari: Ooh, I love this! Emotional intelligence is another of my favorite topics. I’ve always loved the work of Daniel Goleman.
And, I often cite a profound quote by life coach Martha Beck, PhD, in my presentations over the years. At the California Women’s Conference 2010, Martha said, “What the world needs right now more than anything else is emotionally intelligent leaders.” I couldn’t agree with her more. That statement is truer now than ever before!
So, yes, when we can be very adept at soft skills, embody empathy and clearly express that genuine care and concern for each human being in our audience, these values really come across in our style of writing in all our communications whether email broadcasts, sales letters, private messages or social media posts.
Nick: While you, me and others may talk about a more emotionally evolved approach to marketing, I’m not seeing a ton of companies following this script.
Most companies are on social media, but I rarely see them being social in the conversational sense. The language often feels either corporate or overly promotional. Is it all about promotional copy now? I miss the conversational feel of early social media!
Mari: Ha, I’m right there with you on this, too. I feel this is due to a lack of training, to be frank. It’s like these companies don’t know what they don’t know. That, and many organizations are extremely limited by their compliance departments. You can just tell within certain industries by looking at their Facebook Page, for example. There might be a litany of customer complaints and the only responses people receive are absolute cookie-cutter copy and paste, almost as if a robot is answering them. Yikes!
There are good reasons why more savvy companies are enlisting the support of influencers, ambassadors and spokespersons who are way more relatable than the brand itself. People do business with people. To me, it’s all P2P – people to people, whether you serve B2C or B2B. People don’t do business with a logo, or an office building, or a corporation.
It’s vital that brands and businesses of all sizes really strive to humanize their organizations. This is for sure one of the biggest gifts that social media has given all of us. To bring humanity into marketing and commerce. Enriched through storytelling, case studies, real people sharing how they use products and services and coming across without some hidden agendas!
Nick: I’ve heard you talking about a sea change happening in the world of social media this year. There definitely seems to be some major shifts happening and I’m not seeing other industry leaders talk about it. Can you share a bit more about what you see and what changes businesses and freelancers might want to implement?
Mari: Sure! So, the sea change I’m seeing is that social media is quietly moving away from the constant push for more followers, reach, engagement and all the public facing vanity metrics. And, we’re moving towards focusing on metrics that matter along with building genuine relationships, making sales and growing businesses.
Now, I say ‘quietly’ because, indeed, nobody is talking about this. They’re simply behind the scenes, being very strategic and just getting on with things without a big fanfare and song and dance.
It’s really no longer about pushing a constant firehose of content on your audience. I keep seeing that more and more small businesses and entrepreneurs are feeling jaded about social media and have started posting less as they’re just not seeing the reach and results from past years. However, there is still much to be gained from using social media properly.
Honestly, it’s as if social media has come back around full circle to the early days where we had so much more of a conversational feel, as you mentioned earlier. And, I love it! We’ve all succumbed to the manipulative tactics of these giant tech companies for too long now, forever jumping through higher and higher hoops to crank out content to please the algorithms (and create more ad inventory!).
It’s time to take back control, to focus on fostering meaningful communities and to serve our audience’s genuine needs.
Nick: OK… this question is just for me. It’s something I’d really like your take on.
I spend a lot of time listening to Twitter Spaces, either live or the recordings. What I love about live audio on social media, whether on Twitter Spaces, Clubhouse or elsewhere, is that, by definition, it’s conversational. I love it when the host invites listeners up on the “stage” and asks them to participate. Do you think more businesses will get involved with audio as a marketing channel?
Mari: Hm, possibly. Certainly, when Clubhouse blasted onto the scene in early 2021, it seemed that social audio was going to be the ‘next big thing.’ I’ve always been an early adopter myself. However, I’m a highly-researched early adopter. I don’t just blindly jump into anything. So, I sat on the fence and observed and investigated the whole social audio scene for some time. It was interesting to me to see how just as quickly as the popularity rose, it seemed to taper off.
That’s great you really dig Twitter Spaces. And I do agree there’s tremendous merit to opening up the floor for conversations with our audience members.
For me personally, I just prefer live video. There is interaction among live viewers and I place their comments and questions on the screen. But, it’s not every day that I’m camera ready with my glam face on. Haha! So, for sure, audio is in a league of its own in that regard. Which would surely make it a low barrier to entry for a lot of businesses. At the same time, depending on the size of the organization and the industry, I would come back to possible compliance issues as well as training. To have a trusted spokesperson or host representing the brand/business takes time and effort to put in place. (Of course, this is true whether it’s video or audio. And, even though Facebook live streaming gets the best reach and engagement, it’s actually the least used content format!)
At this stage, I’m not sure that social audio has a big growth trajectory ahead as a marketing channel. I’d be happy to be wrong about that, though. Haha!
Nick: OK… now for a couple of questions that aren’t about social media or copywriting. Just stuff I’m curious about. : )
You’ve always struck me as someone who gives and gains a great deal through your personal relationships with people. If I’m right, can you tell us how that focus on relationships has helped you in your life and your career?
Mari: Relationships are everything to me. I love the philosophy of my friend Dr. Ivan Misner, founder of BNI – Business Network International – “Givers gain.” Givers Gain is a philosophy that says if I give to you then you will be motivated to give to me or others within the community.
Oh, and I also love the adage, “It’s not what you know but who you know.” Whilst that certainly might have some merit, I have my own version which has helped me tremendously in my career, especially in the early days. I say, “It’s not what you know but who knows you.” You see, I could say that I know Oprah, or Sir Richard Branson, or Elon Musk. BUT, do they know me?! Ha!
I went out of my way to network and join leadership communities and events where I could really add value to fellow leaders. One of my favorite groups for several years was called SANG: Speakers and Authors Networking Group, starting around 2009. It was organized by my good friend Larry Benet, known as ‘one of the most connected people on the planet.’ It always blew me away the caliber of the people he could get in a room together.
These days, it’s easier more than ever to truly make someone’s day by reaching out with zero agenda and help to sustain personal and professional relationships. A quick text, DM or voice message just to say you’re thinking of someone and asking how they are goes a really long way.
Nick: You seem very comfortable in front of the camera, and in the public eye. What about founders or freelancers who are more introverted, and shy about presenting themselves to the world and speaking in public? Does social media provide them an opportunity to create a more outgoing persona?
Mari: Aha, I love this question. Interestingly, as a side bar, I was painfully shy as a child, terribly soft spoken and quiet. Reading aloud in class was my most dreaded thing to do. I was always tall for my age group (I’m just under six feet tall), yet I would somehow attempt to slouch down and hide behind my book in the hopes the teacher wouldn’t call on me. LOL.
Fast forward to my late teens/early twenties and I’d discovered personal development courses and Toastmasters. I got very involved with the latter and my public speaking confidence grew over time with practice. When I emigrated to the US in 1999, I found Speaking Circles founded by Lee Glickstein and that really changed my life. Unlike Toastmasters where there is a lot of emphasis on getting the speech content just right with no um’s and er’s, Speaking Circles focuses on making a deep connection with each audience member, one at a time.
And, I find this is a transferable skill to the online world. When we can get out of our heads and just look through the camera lens as if we’re looking deep into the eyes of one audience member (follower) at a time, it’s so much easier to create/record a compelling message. The trick is to always be true to yourself. If you’re not naturally outgoing, don’t suddenly try to create a whole bunch of Instagram Reels where you’re dancing and lip-syncing and pointing because you think that’s how to win at social media in today’s world. (It’s not!)
Your audience members want the real you. And they want you to win, to succeed. Most people love it when we share those more real and raw sides of ourselves, perhaps being a tad vulnerable at times.
Nick: Mari, thank you. We really appreciate you taking the time to share with us. If people want to find out more about you and your work, where can they find you? And do you have any upcoming events or launches you’d like to tell us about?
Mari: Thank you for asking! The best place is my private Facebook Group – Mari Smith’s Social Scoop – with over 21k members. It’s a great place to learn and connect with fellow social media marketers and business owners. Also, my Facebook Page, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and my website.
In terms of programs and offerings, I do have a very exciting workshop coming up called The 4 Paths to Success with Social Media, along with the next live iteration of my popular FBOMM: Facebook Organic Marketing Masterclass.
